All my family are deceased except my siblings. Two are 2500 miles away, one is dying of AIDS, and the other has disowned the rest of us (all his woes are not due to his bad decisions, it's all our fault). I have no one left to justify anything to except my wife and kids and myself! Maybe this is why atheism was so attractive to me in my teens- early 20's and is so attractive now...
The Last Nephilim
JoinedPosts by The Last Nephilim
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26
To whom do you MOST feel the need to justify yourself?
by Abandoned inis it your parents?
your spouse?
a religious organization?
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Where is the proof?
by 4mylove inwhere is the proof that they are god's chosen faith?!
that just sounds pomp*ass*!
sorry so many questions, i'm seeing my inlaws this weekend and need a little reinforcements!
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The Last Nephilim
This is a discussion I've had on and off with a co-worker who is in my cong. He used the reasoning that "God used an organization in the 1st century, didn't he? Likewise, he's using an organization today..." I thought about his statement that night, and the next day I told him that the bible does give evidence that the 1st century Christians were indeed organized, but they were NOT an organization! There is a difference! Furthermore, unless I'm forgetting or overlooking something scriptural, the commission to "make disciples of peoples of all the nations..." was given to the "anointed class" (disciples), and NOT the "other sheep". This coincides with the WT teaching that the FDS (esp. the GB) gives the "food at the proper time" to the domestics (those of the anointed who are NOT on the GB), and that by doing so God will appoint him over ALL his "belongings" (the other sheep with the earthly hope). My mind might be slipping, but I know of nowhere in the bible that the "other sheep" are to do any public preaching and teaching or spreading of the good news to anyone! That command was given ONLY to the anointed class (Please direct me to scripture if I'm wrong on this).
Now, if the WTS is wrong and the FDS referred to in Mat 24 actually means ANYONE who "slaves" for God, then the command to preach would apply to ALL Christians. If that is the case, then the WTS's claim that it ALONE is the FDS that is mentioned in Mat 24 is false, else they're not supposed to require the "other sheep" to out in field service!
Make sense? -
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What does it take to get reinstated???
by The Last Nephilim ini have laid low from posting here for a bit and was barely here at all to begin with, so most, if not all of you, may not remember me.
i thought i'd let you all in on what just occurred in my cong.
my ex wife was df'd in 2003 for multiple counts of adultery spanning a 7 year stretch.
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The Last Nephilim
Why should they be telling you ANYTHING about her.
Because I'm also currently in a custody battle with her for the kids. In one aspect I am pleased with the fact that she is reinstated now, because previously she used her df'd status to emotionally blackmail my son into not telling the judge he wanted to live with me (which he does). It worked at the time, but now my son wants another shot at talking to the judge, so this time the ex can't use the "how can you kick me while I'm down?" sob story on him! -
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What does it take to get reinstated???
by The Last Nephilim ini have laid low from posting here for a bit and was barely here at all to begin with, so most, if not all of you, may not remember me.
i thought i'd let you all in on what just occurred in my cong.
my ex wife was df'd in 2003 for multiple counts of adultery spanning a 7 year stretch.
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The Last Nephilim
OnTheWayOut, I was only relating the story to point out what I believe to be a double standard with the elders in my cong., which is further reason why my wife and I are sick of the org and want out. They don't practice what they preach and they certainly are not impartial or fair when it comes to dealing with judicial matters. Trust me, I am not jealous of a couple of hypocrites who use the org like a tool. You could say that I'm just as bad as they are since I'm still technically "in" the org because I haven't figured out how to tell my underage children yet. When I do break the news to them, rest assured I will NOT be going back- EVER!
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What does it take to get reinstated???
by The Last Nephilim ini have laid low from posting here for a bit and was barely here at all to begin with, so most, if not all of you, may not remember me.
i thought i'd let you all in on what just occurred in my cong.
my ex wife was df'd in 2003 for multiple counts of adultery spanning a 7 year stretch.
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The Last Nephilim
Hello again. I have laid low from posting here for a bit and was barely here at all to begin with, so most, if not all of you, may not remember me.
I thought I'd let you all in on what just occurred in my cong. My ex wife was df'd in 2003 for multiple counts of adultery spanning a 7 year stretch. She had previously been df'd as a teen for sexual immorality. Her parents, particularly her mother, have not gone along with the df'ing arrangement and have not carried on the "obligatory" shunning that is normally expected. They even had the nerve to go to the DC together, stay in the same room, and go out to eat together even though they knew that all the restaurants in town would be packed full of other Witnesses. Sure enough, the mother was shortly thereafter publicly reproved and that was that. Afterwards, they began to go to DCs for other districts so as to not be recognized by anyone. They cong. elders were aware of it, but looked the other way. Meanwhile the ex has repeatedly put in letters to be reinstated, but the elders held their ground, because nothing had really changed in her life. In fact, she was sexually active with her "worldly" boyfriend and thought the elders had no way of knowing about him. Then she moved and switched congregations. Our PO told me that "many df'd people use that strategy thinking it will get them reinstated quicker, but it NEVER works". In her case, it took little more than 5 months! The real kicker, though, is that 2 months ago there were 4 eyewitnesses (3 of which have been in the "truth" for over 3 decades, were/are all pioneers, and one a former elder) from 2 different congregations who saw my ex and her mother eating at a restaurant together. The local elders were informed, nothing was ever done about it, and now the ex is reinstated!
I wonder if part of the reason they were willing to look the other way and reinstate her is because my wife and I have missed all meetings for 3 weeks, didn't turn in any service time for Dec., and my two kids with the ex are in need of a "spiritual role model"?
Hey, does that mean my wife and I are officially "faders"??? :P -
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Pounding through my head
by freeme inhi friends!.
mentally im out of the org, but stay in it because of family, friends and wife.
most of the time im pretty happy, until i remember that this wont last forever.
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The Last Nephilim
I personally like "Well Enough Alone" by Chevelle. It's my style of music, it's poetic, and it somehow hits home to me when I think of my situation. I especially enjoy the second verse;
"So fed up, what's with the scenes?
Observe and leave instead
This pity wagon penetrates my skin
So sensitive, makes me sick"
Then, of course, the main chorus;
Like before, makes no sense
Never coming, always leaving
Right before, hooked on substance
Digging deeper, can't reveal
Why we leave well enough alone"
I don't know what the song was really written about but I feel like it describes my feelings about the "truth", the org, and everything I've experienced. -
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Double Standard/Contradictions compilation
by The Last Nephilim ini think this is the appropriate forum for this.
i'm trying to compile a list of jw rules, policies, practices, or beliefs that are contradictory or that they apply to everyone else but themselves.
for example; jws tell members of other religions to examine and question their beliefs, but jws can't; if you are in "the world", you're not really happy- only jws are happy.
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The Last Nephilim
Page 47, top of the page, first full sentence; "Barbour succeeded in convincing Russell that Christ's invisible presence had begun in 1874.*"
"*A clearer understanding of Bible chronology was published in later years. See Chapter 10, 'Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth.'"
I'm trying to catch up with what is stated in Chapter 10, but so far it looks like they're saying that CT Russell is "off the hook" so to speak because that "evil" Barbour "convinced" or "persuaded" Russell that 1874 was Christ's return. I have yet to see a statement that Russell "discerned" or "concluded" that 1874 was the correct year. Looks like the ole' "pointing the finger and placing blame elsewhere" tactic of excusing a wrong prophecy by Russell.
As I mentioned in my previous post, I had always thought that we JWs always associated Christ's presence with the end of the Gentile times. Evidently this isn't the case, although I don't understand why Russell would have ever thought that the two would occur at different times.
Anyway, the other statement that appeared to me that contradicted the first one on page 47 is on page 60, halfway through the next-to-last paragraph; "Yet, from the time of his early association with Nelson Barbour, he was convinced that there was an accurate chronology, based on the Bible, and that it pointed to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times."
I just wonder how "Bible scholars" such as Russell and Barbour would place the end of the Gentile times and the invisible return of Christ 40 years apart? At any rate, what I've read so far in Chapter 10 makes it clear that all JWs at that time (and evidently down to this day) have held on to the idea that there's something significant about 1914, although it took some years to apply meaning to that year that couldn't be easily proven wrong with the passing of time, hence the continual "new light" on the meaning of a "generation". They just REFUSE to let go of 1914!!! They're going to make it fit one way or another!!! -
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Double Standard/Contradictions compilation
by The Last Nephilim ini think this is the appropriate forum for this.
i'm trying to compile a list of jw rules, policies, practices, or beliefs that are contradictory or that they apply to everyone else but themselves.
for example; jws tell members of other religions to examine and question their beliefs, but jws can't; if you are in "the world", you're not really happy- only jws are happy.
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The Last Nephilim
Leo, I was under the impression that the end of the Gentile times always MEANT the invisible return of Christ, according to WT doctrine. Of course, this is the impression I've been given. Do you have an old WT article stating otherwise? If so, please pass it on- I'd love to check it out! I just checked out the first article on the subject in the WTLIB and found this, but it only confirms what you've stated about what is believed TODAY but not necessarily what was believed by CT Russell;
"Although the end of the Gentile Times had been announced in publications by the Watch Tower Society for decades as due to fall in 1914, those earthly rulers were determined to resist the heavenly Messiah in taking over world domination. They kept making the most advanced preparations for international war. Yet, outwardly, 1914 started off peacefully. Then, on July 28 the nations plunged into war.
7 The installation of the Messiah as King at Jehovah’s right hand in that selfsame year marked the start of his invisible presence with respect to our earth."
Needless to say, with the "present truth" we now have based on statements like this one, it looks like a contradiction, does it not?
By the way, how do I italicize words in this forum? I'd rather italicize than all caps! -
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Double Standard/Contradictions compilation
by The Last Nephilim ini think this is the appropriate forum for this.
i'm trying to compile a list of jw rules, policies, practices, or beliefs that are contradictory or that they apply to everyone else but themselves.
for example; jws tell members of other religions to examine and question their beliefs, but jws can't; if you are in "the world", you're not really happy- only jws are happy.
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The Last Nephilim
Thanks for the help, guys! It means alot to me to have help and to be able to communicate with others who feel like I'm feeling about the WTS!
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Double Standard/Contradictions compilation
by The Last Nephilim ini think this is the appropriate forum for this.
i'm trying to compile a list of jw rules, policies, practices, or beliefs that are contradictory or that they apply to everyone else but themselves.
for example; jws tell members of other religions to examine and question their beliefs, but jws can't; if you are in "the world", you're not really happy- only jws are happy.
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The Last Nephilim
I think this is the appropriate forum for this. I'm trying to compile a list of JW rules, policies, practices, or beliefs that are contradictory or that they apply to everyone else but themselves. For example; JWs tell members of other religions to examine and question their beliefs, but JWs can't; If you are in "the world", you're not really happy- only JWs are happy. If a JW isn't happy, it's because Satan is persecuting them for being JWs.
You get the point...
I am researching things as deeply as possible before I decide what to do next. In addition to this list, I'm talking to my sister who lives out of state who has been trying to subtly convince me to give up the JDubs for years now. I'm also carefully reading the "Proclaimers" book to see what it has to say, and already I found a direct contradiction between two statements by page 60! In a nutshell, the book admits that CT Russell was "convinced" by N Barbour that the invisible return of Christ was in 1874, but 13 pages later it said that since his knowing Barbour he'd predicted the date to be 1914!!! What happened to 1874???
Anyway, if anyone can help me compile a list of these type things or direct me to a site that has already done so please help me out! ALso, I'm interested in things of this nature that anyone has witnessed at the congregational level, even if it was brought out that there was corruption. After all, elders and MSs are "spirit" appointed, right?! ;)
Thanks!